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	<title>Comments on: Forgiveness</title>
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	<description>» I solder the body electric «</description>
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		<title>By: Ciera</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-5370</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Nov 2005 15:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-5370</guid>
		<description>Here is an exerpt from Lisa Bevere&#039;s article &quot;Stopping a Fight Before It Gets Out of Hand&quot; that I thought would fit in here, though dealing with more day to day relational issues: &quot;By overlooking an offense, we are like obediant children who say, &#039;Father, I know I can trust You with this one.  It is too big and painful for me.  I refuse to lash back; instead I lay it at Your feet and forgive.&#039;  It is a guesture that declares our royal birthright.  For forgiveness imitates the Son of God to a dying earth.  To overlook means to look above and choose to see things on a higher level than where the offense was committed.  It is to pretend not to notice and extend grace and mercy when you would have rather exercised judgment.&quot;

I was cut to the heart when I read this, as I haven&#039;t been doing very well when it comes to forgiveness recently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is an exerpt from Lisa Bevere&#8217;s article &#8220;Stopping a Fight Before It Gets Out of Hand&#8221; that I thought would fit in here, though dealing with more day to day relational issues: &#8220;By overlooking an offense, we are like obediant children who say, &#8216;Father, I know I can trust You with this one.  It is too big and painful for me.  I refuse to lash back; instead I lay it at Your feet and forgive.&#8217;  It is a guesture that declares our royal birthright.  For forgiveness imitates the Son of God to a dying earth.  To overlook means to look above and choose to see things on a higher level than where the offense was committed.  It is to pretend not to notice and extend grace and mercy when you would have rather exercised judgment.&#8221;</p>
<p>I was cut to the heart when I read this, as I haven&#8217;t been doing very well when it comes to forgiveness recently.</p>
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		<title>By: Ciera</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2510</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 15:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2510</guid>
		<description>Jules - I&#039;ve never thought of it that way, the differences between my brothers and uncles, I mean.

And - I&#039;m not going crazy - &quot;Are you sure?&quot;  Seriuosly, I&#039;ve never had anyone tell me they were familiar with what I&#039;d described.  that alone...brings tears to my eyes  :cry:  Someone else knows.  I did try go see a counselor a couple months ago, but even at his reduced rate [I&#039;m special after all!!!] I can&#039;t afford to go regularly. Sigh.

Carl, what you said at the end, reminds me of the acronym KISS [Keep It Simple Stupid!].  Quit making it so complicated and just keep it simple.  :)  Easier said then done sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jules &#8211; I&#8217;ve never thought of it that way, the differences between my brothers and uncles, I mean.</p>
<p>And &#8211; I&#8217;m not going crazy &#8211; &#8220;Are you sure?&#8221;  Seriuosly, I&#8217;ve never had anyone tell me they were familiar with what I&#8217;d described.  that alone&#8230;brings tears to my eyes  <img src='http://www.electrolund.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif' alt=':cry:' class='wp-smiley' />   Someone else knows.  I did try go see a counselor a couple months ago, but even at his reduced rate [I'm special after all!!!] I can&#8217;t afford to go regularly. Sigh.</p>
<p>Carl, what you said at the end, reminds me of the acronym KISS [Keep It Simple Stupid!].  Quit making it so complicated and just keep it simple.  <img src='http://www.electrolund.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Easier said then done sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2507</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2005 04:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2507</guid>
		<description>Nice comments, people.  I like Carl&#039;s statement about how opening up (against our natural instincts, I might add) and loving others helps us see them as Christ does.  

Cool thought!  I wonder if my closed off heart causes me to view those around me as less than they truly are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice comments, people.  I like Carl&#8217;s statement about how opening up (against our natural instincts, I might add) and loving others helps us see them as Christ does.  </p>
<p>Cool thought!  I wonder if my closed off heart causes me to view those around me as less than they truly are.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2506</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2506</guid>
		<description>I think we can catch glimpses of what people were meant to be.  The more we hang around others the more warts we&#039;ll see but opening up and loving people allows us to have those moments when we truly see people the way God sees them.  And those moments when our guard is down and we are just giving to and loving on others are the moments when they get to see us that way as well.  They may sometimes be few and far between but that&#039;s okay, it&#039;ll all be good someday and there really is alot of joy to be had in each day now if you just open up to it and look for it in the simple things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we can catch glimpses of what people were meant to be.  The more we hang around others the more warts we&#8217;ll see but opening up and loving people allows us to have those moments when we truly see people the way God sees them.  And those moments when our guard is down and we are just giving to and loving on others are the moments when they get to see us that way as well.  They may sometimes be few and far between but that&#8217;s okay, it&#8217;ll all be good someday and there really is alot of joy to be had in each day now if you just open up to it and look for it in the simple things.</p>
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		<title>By: Jules</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2505</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 22:03:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2505</guid>
		<description>Jesus died for all men, that ALL men might be saved. 

Statistically, most of the people that abuse were victims of sexual abuse themselves. They had a teenage boy on doctor Phil one day, and it broke my heart into pieces. When he was two, a female family member abused him, apparently several times. This poor boy was still in diapers and yet the impact of the abuse has broken him. He is a teenager now and he hurt and abused his little sister. His parents are loving good people. They&#039;ve had to kick him out to protect the other children. He&#039;s in therapy, but it&#039;s obvious he is dangerous and the therapy doesn&#039;t seem to be working. Only God himself can deliver this boy and make him healthy again. I pray He does so. I hope someone who knows the Lord can come along and offer him the hope and healing he needs.

Ciera, I can certainly see why it is much harder for you to forgive your uncles than it is for you to forgive brothers and cousins. Brothers and cousins are peers, but uncles are supposed to be trusted adults.They are supposed to be people you can look up to. They are supposed to be extra special, &quot;safe&quot; people. They should be loving authority figures, modeling good example. It makes perfect sense to me why forgiving them is so difficult for you.

You are not going crazy either, even though you may feel like you are. I went through a difficult time in my life and I began to lose control of my thoughts. It&#039;s like my thoughts were going too fast for me to keep up with and there seemed to be a lot of them, sometimes at once. It felt maddening and I even began to pace a lot. It got so bad that I had to call in to work several times and I NEVER called in to work! I began to lose the ability to function normally. I wasn&#039;t going crazy, I was suffering from anxiety. Unfortunately, I was unable to go on medication, which I think 3 months or so on something would have really helped me. I did see a Christian counselor and that seemed to really help me. Eventually, I got past that difficult time and I haven&#039;t had those kind of problems since. Life is very, very, very hard and sometimes we do get broken along the way. The good news is there&#039;s always hope and brokeness can be a really good thing that draws us closer to Him. God is in the business of healing and making us whole. Hang in there and may He touch it where it hurts. I think He does blow on our hurts and kisses them like I do my kiddos. Sometimes, when he needs to he pours medicine on them that hurts, but in the long run there is healing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jesus died for all men, that ALL men might be saved. </p>
<p>Statistically, most of the people that abuse were victims of sexual abuse themselves. They had a teenage boy on doctor Phil one day, and it broke my heart into pieces. When he was two, a female family member abused him, apparently several times. This poor boy was still in diapers and yet the impact of the abuse has broken him. He is a teenager now and he hurt and abused his little sister. His parents are loving good people. They&#8217;ve had to kick him out to protect the other children. He&#8217;s in therapy, but it&#8217;s obvious he is dangerous and the therapy doesn&#8217;t seem to be working. Only God himself can deliver this boy and make him healthy again. I pray He does so. I hope someone who knows the Lord can come along and offer him the hope and healing he needs.</p>
<p>Ciera, I can certainly see why it is much harder for you to forgive your uncles than it is for you to forgive brothers and cousins. Brothers and cousins are peers, but uncles are supposed to be trusted adults.They are supposed to be people you can look up to. They are supposed to be extra special, &#8220;safe&#8221; people. They should be loving authority figures, modeling good example. It makes perfect sense to me why forgiving them is so difficult for you.</p>
<p>You are not going crazy either, even though you may feel like you are. I went through a difficult time in my life and I began to lose control of my thoughts. It&#8217;s like my thoughts were going too fast for me to keep up with and there seemed to be a lot of them, sometimes at once. It felt maddening and I even began to pace a lot. It got so bad that I had to call in to work several times and I NEVER called in to work! I began to lose the ability to function normally. I wasn&#8217;t going crazy, I was suffering from anxiety. Unfortunately, I was unable to go on medication, which I think 3 months or so on something would have really helped me. I did see a Christian counselor and that seemed to really help me. Eventually, I got past that difficult time and I haven&#8217;t had those kind of problems since. Life is very, very, very hard and sometimes we do get broken along the way. The good news is there&#8217;s always hope and brokeness can be a really good thing that draws us closer to Him. God is in the business of healing and making us whole. Hang in there and may He touch it where it hurts. I think He does blow on our hurts and kisses them like I do my kiddos. Sometimes, when he needs to he pours medicine on them that hurts, but in the long run there is healing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ciera</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2504</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 21:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2504</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And ultimately I look forward to a day when I can look this guy in the eye and see the man that God created and not the man whose behavior I loathe. &lt;/i&gt;

would that day be soon.  To see others as they were meant to be, and could be, instead of what they are or have been.

Do you think this could ever possibly be achieved this side of heaven?

~~~~~~~~

the entire letter thing is funny though. :lol:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And ultimately I look forward to a day when I can look this guy in the eye and see the man that God created and not the man whose behavior I loathe. </i></p>
<p>would that day be soon.  To see others as they were meant to be, and could be, instead of what they are or have been.</p>
<p>Do you think this could ever possibly be achieved this side of heaven?</p>
<p>~~~~~~~~</p>
<p>the entire letter thing is funny though. <img src='http://www.electrolund.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif' alt=':lol:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2503</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:47:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2503</guid>
		<description>I just knew I was going to get the blame for that!  :twisted:</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just knew I was going to get the blame for that!  <img src='http://www.electrolund.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif' alt=':twisted:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2502</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2502</guid>
		<description>(Ciera, Carl whined about the letters being too hard to figure out :roll:, so I removed them.  But I &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;forgive&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; him though!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Ciera, Carl whined about the letters being too hard to figure out <img src='http://www.electrolund.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif' alt=':roll:' class='wp-smiley' /> , so I removed them.  But I <em><strong>forgive</strong></em> him though!)</p>
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		<title>By: Carl V.</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2501</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 20:33:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2501</guid>
		<description>I think even the worst of people were helped along the way by someone from some time before.  That&#039;s not to say that there isn&#039;t evil but I have to believe that evil can&#039;t just come around and jump on you and make you a monster...if so then where does the idea of free will and choice come in?

Ciera, I would have a much more difficult time with the issue if it was a family member and I&#039;m sure I&#039;d be much more invested in their lives...but if I had a family member who molested kids (actually I have at least one by marriage) then I&#039;m still erring along the lines that they shouldn&#039;t be allowed to do that again and I&#039;d never trust them around my kids or any kids for that matter.  Sorry you are having to go through this...its bad enough for me having to deal with someone I looked up to, can&#039;t imagine having to deal with these issues with family members.

I&#039;m glad that no one, even the guy I&#039;d like to strangle, is beyond God&#039;s redemption and am glad that there are those who have a heart to minister to people like this.  Someone, after all, was instrumental in making them this way.  No one wakes up one morning and decides to be a monster.  I feel honored to be loved by a God that doesn&#039;t have the same petty feelings I do and has given everything to give even the most heinous person an opportunity to live an eternal life in glory with Him.  Cool stuff indeed.  And ultimately I look forward to a day when I can look this guy in the eye and see the man that God created and not the man whose behavior I loathe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think even the worst of people were helped along the way by someone from some time before.  That&#8217;s not to say that there isn&#8217;t evil but I have to believe that evil can&#8217;t just come around and jump on you and make you a monster&#8230;if so then where does the idea of free will and choice come in?</p>
<p>Ciera, I would have a much more difficult time with the issue if it was a family member and I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;d be much more invested in their lives&#8230;but if I had a family member who molested kids (actually I have at least one by marriage) then I&#8217;m still erring along the lines that they shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to do that again and I&#8217;d never trust them around my kids or any kids for that matter.  Sorry you are having to go through this&#8230;its bad enough for me having to deal with someone I looked up to, can&#8217;t imagine having to deal with these issues with family members.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad that no one, even the guy I&#8217;d like to strangle, is beyond God&#8217;s redemption and am glad that there are those who have a heart to minister to people like this.  Someone, after all, was instrumental in making them this way.  No one wakes up one morning and decides to be a monster.  I feel honored to be loved by a God that doesn&#8217;t have the same petty feelings I do and has given everything to give even the most heinous person an opportunity to live an eternal life in glory with Him.  Cool stuff indeed.  And ultimately I look forward to a day when I can look this guy in the eye and see the man that God created and not the man whose behavior I loathe.</p>
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		<title>By: Ciera</title>
		<link>http://www.electrolund.com/2005/11/forgiveness/comment-page-1#comment-2500</link>
		<dc:creator>Ciera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.electrolund.com/?p=568#comment-2500</guid>
		<description>I still love my brothers and my cousin, even though they have done some monsterous things; one of whom is serving in prison.  However, I have a harder time loving my uncles though, who are guilty of the same things.  Go fig.

Black and white; or shades of gray?  Logically - since the crimes are the same - shouldn&#039;t my reactions be the same.  I mean, I outright despise some of my uncles, to the point of not attending one funeral.  My cousin---well, I did write to him for while in prison, but he stopped so I stopped.

How far does the cycle abuse go back?  These things often run right down the line, generation after generation after generation.  And each generation grows more and more perverse.  We are each responsible for our own actions and reactions...but how much of our perspecive has been muddied by the choices of our parents parents and so on and so forth?

I daily hope that I was not born &quot;broken&quot;, but sometimes I fear that there is no hope for me. {{and then Rob will come along and leave a comment somewhere on my blog and tell me there is still hope and I feel better!}}

I wish my mind had a &quot;control+alt+delete&quot; setting - that would make forgiveness sooo much easier.  And the moving on afterwards.

I mean, there are times I cannot shut my mind down...it keeps playing and replaying thoughts in my head sometimes...and no amount of saying Jesus&#039; name seems to help...and I fear that I&#039;m loosing my ever-loving mind!!!!!!!!!

I hope I haven&#039;t spilled too much on your blog Rob.  I&#039;m not even sure if I maintained my focus in this entry and I&#039;ve reread it twice.  Sigh.



uhm...what happened to your letters at the bottom?  U know, the spam protection feature?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still love my brothers and my cousin, even though they have done some monsterous things; one of whom is serving in prison.  However, I have a harder time loving my uncles though, who are guilty of the same things.  Go fig.</p>
<p>Black and white; or shades of gray?  Logically &#8211; since the crimes are the same &#8211; shouldn&#8217;t my reactions be the same.  I mean, I outright despise some of my uncles, to the point of not attending one funeral.  My cousin&#8212;well, I did write to him for while in prison, but he stopped so I stopped.</p>
<p>How far does the cycle abuse go back?  These things often run right down the line, generation after generation after generation.  And each generation grows more and more perverse.  We are each responsible for our own actions and reactions&#8230;but how much of our perspecive has been muddied by the choices of our parents parents and so on and so forth?</p>
<p>I daily hope that I was not born &#8220;broken&#8221;, but sometimes I fear that there is no hope for me. {{and then Rob will come along and leave a comment somewhere on my blog and tell me there is still hope and I feel better!}}</p>
<p>I wish my mind had a &#8220;control+alt+delete&#8221; setting &#8211; that would make forgiveness sooo much easier.  And the moving on afterwards.</p>
<p>I mean, there are times I cannot shut my mind down&#8230;it keeps playing and replaying thoughts in my head sometimes&#8230;and no amount of saying Jesus&#8217; name seems to help&#8230;and I fear that I&#8217;m loosing my ever-loving mind!!!!!!!!!</p>
<p>I hope I haven&#8217;t spilled too much on your blog Rob.  I&#8217;m not even sure if I maintained my focus in this entry and I&#8217;ve reread it twice.  Sigh.</p>
<p>uhm&#8230;what happened to your letters at the bottom?  U know, the spam protection feature?</p>
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